DragonsAttached are selected articles specifically for dragons and my dragon tables. Most of the info for the dragon tables is old (with a few updates from me). If you try a different response and get a surprise answer, please let me know. General
Info on Dragons by Brian Mason
General Info On DragonsThe first big MEPBM issue as I recall was agents. They were "too tough" the agent orders were "made more difficult", now the issue seems to be Dragons, although agents are still tough (maybe too tough), we have learned over time how to better fight against them. Move your capitol, use emissaries to double them, don't stay in one place for two long, have backup commanders, transfer command so they cannot follow you... I think we should be asking similar questions of Dragons. How do we combat them, not if they are too tough or not. They tend to go to the character in command of an army with the largest total skill ranks (including artifacts, I believe) I am still not 100% on this but it looks pretty good. If they attack a pop centre that is defended by an army, they only attack once, against the army. They show up very well on pop centres, with divine char/forces and even locate character. If they are seen in a place other than Mordor, Misty Mtns, Mts/Hill&Rough hex on DL Map or Mtn in North they are with an army. They stay with an army for a limited (random) time. I have tended not to play the FP positions because I feel it is to easy to win. This has made me not consider at length how to deal with dragons. Lets talk about this one! I do feel that given the "Dragon Lists" floating about they have become a larger problem for the FP. I'm sure its possible. How do we combat them? Did GSI give us any options here, I think so; but perhaps I give them to much credit. (Tom's note: there's a correction that needs to be made. Brian L. states that dragons only appear in Mordor, mountain hexes, or hills/rough hexes. This isn't entirely true. Two dragons that I know of will appear in the Wastes north and west of the Grey Mountains (in general, hexrows 01-03), in the Wastes north of the Iron Hills, and along the road that runs from Gundabad east past Mirkwood. They're rarely seen because hardly anyone sends people to these areas. At least one of these dragons is recruitable.) Beating DragonsBy Tom WaltonThis last turn I won my first battle against an enemy army that contained a dragon. Because I destroyed the enemy in the first round of combat, and because complications such as spells, artifacts, multiple armies, etc. weren't present, I was able to calculate exactly how much damage the dragon did. The result: the dragon, in this instance Throkmaw, inflicted 45,000 points of mayhem upon my army. This case (winning against a dragon) is rare enough that combat values for others of the great wyrms haven't been established (so far as I know). It could be that all dragons are generic, or that combat strength varies from dragon to dragon; I don't know. I also don't know if there's a relationship between challenge rank and combat strength, although I'd make a tentative guess that dragons have a challenge equal to their combat strength divided by 200.If anyone else out there has done what I did and managed to figure out the combat strength of a dragon, I'd like to hear from you.
Darren Beyer reports that he managed to calculate the combat strength of Khuzadrepa in battle. His estimate was roughly 50,000 combat points, +/- 10% or so. Note that with the variance, this means that Khuzadrepa could also have a combat strength of 45,000, as was determined for Throkmaw earlier. Or, assuming my calculations were at the wrong end of the scale, Throkmaw could instead have a combat strength of 50,000. I see one of several possibilities: (1) In terms of combat strength, dragons are generic (all the same). (2) Dragons are broken down into classes (weak, average, strong). (3) Dragons have individual base strengths with a variable factor thrown in (like eagles, mumak, woses and such).
Recruitable DragonsWhat follows is a list of dragons recruitable by each of the allegiances, for those that are curious. These dragons have been confirmed by GSI itself: Dark Servants: Aivnec, Ando-Anca, Angurth, Culgor, Itangast, Klyaxar, Khuzadrepa, Lamthanc, Lomaw, Smaug, Throkmaw, Uruial. There's an unconfirmed rumour that any Dragon Lord character who States his NAME will recruit any recruitable dragon. Sounds pretty darned far-fetched to me, but since I'm the Dragon Lord in one game I might test it out for you all.
Finding DragonsBy Brian MasonI'm in the process of completing a survey on the range of particular dragons that move outside the normal bounds of the Grey/Misty Mountains, the Withered Heath,and surrounding rough hexes. No real surprises here, but some information you may find marginally useful: Rough hexes in Northern Gondor: the group of rough hexes in Northern Gondor just east of Angrenost and south of Dol Guldur will sometimes see visits by dragons. The most common encounters are with Itangast, Khuzadrepa, and other dragons that are generally found in the Southern Misty Mountains. Strangely enough, these dragons won't be found in any of the non-rough hexes between this location and the Misty Mountains (i.e., no encounters in plains or forest hexes). Sarn Goriwing: Sarn Goriwing and the two rough hexes to the north will commonly be haunted by Nimanaur, Bairanax, and other dragons found in the Grey Mountains to the north. Again, they won't be found in the intervening forest or plains hexes. Iron Hills: dragon visits are very infrequent in these rough hexes, but the most common encounters are with Bairanax and Gostir. These dragons can also be found in the Northern Wastes between the Iron Hills and the Grey Mountains. No dragons range east or south of the Iron Hills (with the exception of Lamthanc in Mordor). All other dragons are encountered in the mountain hexes of the Misty or Grey Mountains, adjacent rough hexes, the Withered Heath (the plains hexes between the two branches of the Grey Mountains), or rarely, in the Northern Wastes north of the Grey Mountains. Dragons are not found in any other location on the map, unless attached to someone's army (so far as I know). If you're looking to find the recruitable dragons, the best places to be are pop centres in Angmar (mountains), Gundabad, Goblin'sGate, or the mountain hexes within this triangle. Most of the recruitable dragons have ranges which cross in this area.
Explanation of the TablesCOMBAT vs INJURED/KILLED results: A couple of players have asked what the difference is between these two results on my dragon lists. Here's how I distinguish them: If seven crawled away to live another day, the result would be INJURED/KILLED. I distinguish between the two because INJURED/KILLED gives you a better chance of escaping a bad situation than COMBAT does. And for many players, a chance to escape in any form is all they want. For those of you who sometimes get results different from those on the table, let me remind you: you'll get that result a MAJORITY of the time, not EVERY time. Some people are still operating under the extremely faulty assumption that x response gives y reaction no matter what. THIS IS NOT TRUE; IT HAS NEVER BEEN TRUE. There area range of results for reach response, some of which only happen once in a blue moon, others which happen more often. The linear x/y thinking outlined above gets players into trouble because they don't take into account the unexpected, resulting in rumours that the encounter lists have been changed. A Point On The TablesOnce a 'favourable' response was learned, players rarely try anything new so it's difficult to update the Dragon Lists as frequently as I would like. If you have any information to add to these lists please let me know. Thanks. Who do Dragons Join?On successfully recruiting a dragon, it will go to the army commanded by the character with the highest challenge rank. Dragons
Description: encounter a dragon laying atop a huge
mound of gold, apparently sleeping. Note: It's rumoured that those results marked with an asterisk allow a character to steal some gold or an artifact if his agent score is high enough, a reliable source says it's possible to steal gold, the agent who did this was around an effective 90 or so skill rank. This particular encounter doesn't seem to be attached to any 'name' dragon. I've been told that it's been found in the Blue Mountains (confirmed), and that the challenge rank of the generic dragon is only about 100. I can't confirm the challenge rank against any secondary source at the moment, but I have seen this encounter and know for a fact that the results as they stand are good.
*100,000 gold is unconfirmed. A red drake, Ando Anca resides at Mt Udunanca on the Northeastern side of the withered heath. His father was Glaurung, so he is extremely old and, aside from his older brother Scatha, the most powerful of the Cold Drakes. His favourite pray are trolls. Perhaps saying Glaurung, will get a favourable response? Also, he is described as loving a good fight? So ATTACK might work with him? (It works with Angurth!)
*Confirmed from two separate sources. However, I also have it on good authority that a CL agent tried acting Haughty and was killed. Angurth reputedly, relishes duels and enjoys slaying heavily armed foes. ATTACK = combat for FP/NT, dragon recruited into army for DS! Yes, I know this sounds weird, but it's true. A DS who attacks Angurth will end up recruiting the dragon.... You'll note that the ATTACK option doesn't appear on my dragon encounter list. I was under the impression that anyone foolish enough to do this was going to end up with big trouble, so I didn't bother to add it. But this new info means that ATTACK might actually be viable in a few cases. Silly me for not considering the possibility. Still, I'm not going to be the one who tests this out....
A bear hunter, Bairanax lives in the caves at Ovir Hollow in the southern Gray Mountains. His fondness for bear-meat is tied to his hatred of bears, for as a young dragon escaping the doom of Angband, he was almost killed by a North Bear. The Woodmen consider him a personal enemy. More than one of the Beornings has perished while trying to slay him. Perhaps saying 'Beorning' (as a DS) will recruit Bairanax? Corlagon
There was a rumour that offering 10K gold would recruit Corlagon for a DS. A dragon Lord offering 10K gold was attacked but survived on 25 health. I think the table should be changed to Injured/Killed. - Thanks to Greg Shaffer for the info. Offering the sword Aeglin # 125 may have some significance to Corlagon so he may be recuitable this way. In fact, any artefacts may work because Corlagon the Red hoards treasure and artefacts. Culgor
Names tried: Sauron
"I follow the path of Darkness!" The cry rang out in the confines of the cave as he waited anxiously for the Dragon's response. With a great hissing breath, the Dragon looked down and whispered, "So......? Nothing you can say has any meaning! Now you die... Daelomin looked sneeringly down at the warrior before him. It would be fun to slaughter this puny warrior, he thought. Daelomin watched as the warrior launched an all out attack against what he believed to be the Dragon's weakest points. Suddenly, the warrior doubled over in pain as he was hit by spells of stunning force. Daelomin merely spoke a few words and his opponent fell to the ground gasping for breath and writhing in pain. "You had no chance, " he whispered and a ball of fire enveloped his opponent's body. Daelomin turned slowly away and left the scene. The body of his enemy lay wracked and broken on the ground behind him. A highly mystical and enchanted drake, Daelomin is often referred to as 'Ghost-Wing'. This response may work to recruit her if you are a DS? Gostir
The elusive Gostir is spotted at 4202 (don't ask me why I have a camp there, it's a stand-by position!). There has been some thoughts in a previous Mouth about Dragon appearance (where they show up, not how they look!), and it could seem that Gostir only appears in rows 1 to 3, where it's really, really cold. Also note, that it's a plains hex, so it might be the only Dragon showing up in non-Mountains. Gostir can be recruited by the DS for one artefact (I think)! Gostir the ancient, is also known as "Dread-Glance". From 'Tobar' (My Character) slowly crossed the endless frozen wastes north
of Rhun. Suddenly, the snow erupted in front of him in a blinding white spray that slowly
cleared to reveal a dreadful figure. Standing amidst the snow was a Dragon, one of the
Great Worms, Morgoth's mightiest creations. It was solid white from horns to tail except
for its eyes,which burned with a terrifying red light. Fortunately, he had heard tales of
this Dragon. "Gostir" he was called and he was legendary. The Dragon regarded
him for a moment, then spoke. "Shouldn't you seek permission before snooping in my
snow-fields?", the Dragon said in a low, sibilant whisper. "I enjoy swallowing
those that sneak about."
Note: Woodmen Emissary Escaped Unharmed from Itangast by acting MEEK. Itangast is also known as "Guest-Eater" in the Northmen tongues of the Rhovanion. Update from Ulrik Bisgaard regarding Itangast:
Update from Ulrik Bisgaard : Khuzadrepa has attackstrength between 35,500 and 36,000. Klyaxar
*Only from one source. Best to act haughty to recruit him.
One player reported a character death after doing Act HAUGHTY with a Free Peoples. However, he was a dwarf, which has a tendency to bring out the worst in dragons. Until I hear from someone else, I'm going to add an additional note to the dragon file giving injury/death as a possible alternate outcome of Act HAUGHTY. Update: in game 13UK when playing the dwarves my character, an emissary/mage escaped with 1 health by acting Haughty. * Word was - Riddle Lamthanc means "Forked Tongue".
Leucaruth: confirmed that anyone who ATTACKS Leucaruth will get eaten. If you are a dwarf you will be killed most likely. He has a hatred for the race. Leucaruth means "Worm of Ire". Lomaw
** DS characters tend to get away (at least in my experience).
Ruingurth: change all options except ATTACK the dragon to = escape unharmed for all allegiances. ATTACK the dragon = combat for all allegiances. Encounter for Kav Makow at 1804He turned to flee and the Dragon merely hissed. As he got farther and farther away, he turned to see if the Dragon was following. He was extremely surprised to see that Ruingurth had merely gone back to sleep. Ruingurth means "Fire Death". He is the son of Ancalagon.
Dark Servant offers two artefacts.... Looking up at the Dragon, she posed her words carefully.
"Scatha, I have come to ask you, the noblest of Dragons, to join our battle. As
incentive, I offer to you any two artifacts I own!" Scatha looked up as he
Encounter for Rozilan (DS) at 2217 "I have come for you, Scorba. You will come with me to destroy my enemies. You have no choice. I demand your instant and unequivocal obedience! You will follow me..NOW!" Silence reigned for moments after her impassioned speech. Suddenly, the walls seemed to shake as the Dragon stood before her. "NEVER demand from ME!... But I like your attitude, so I may join one of your Commanders for a short while. At least you knew better than to try to bribe me." Smaug
The encounter for Smaug in 2950 takes place at 3107 (the lonely mountain) and is different to the 1650 encounter). Throkmaw
*Said - Turkulon **Now here's an interesting note on Turukulon. I ran into him while playing the Dragon Lord and offered Two Artefacts. Not only did he let my character go, but he said "I was wondering when you'd seek me out. Comeback when you have something interesting to offer me, etc." So it could be that a DS offering two artifacts can recruit Turukulon. It could also be that this is one of those encounters that's nation-specific, i.e., that ONLY the Dragon Lord can recruit Turukulon with the proper response (10,000 gold, 1 artifact, etc.). I've neverheard of anyone getting this dragon to join an army, but it's obvious that there's a way to do it - if only for the Dragon Lord. Turukulon: good evidence suggests that Offer TWO artifacts = dragon recruited for Dark Servants. This hasn't been directly confirmed,but it fits well with the info already in hand. Turukulon is recruitable, but perhaps only by the Dragon Lord. The correct response is thought to be 10,000 gold or 1/2 artifact(s). Cardolan agent tried offering TWO artifacts to Turukulon; the dragon said "I might have taken those if you'd had them", but he didn't, and Turukulon flamed him down to 1 health point. I suppose this falls under injured/killed, but one of these days I've got to try it with somebody who actually HAS two artifacts and see if it works. A further update about Turukulon from Lucas
Cuccia "Dragon, I am known as Gullas, and I have come to speak with you. Listen to my words!" Turukulon raised his mighty head and peered closely at the one before him. "So," he whispered, "you think that I should know one so insignificant as you? All I know is that you sound very delicious..." Turukulon looked sneeringly down at the warrior before him. It would be fun to slaughter this puny warrior, he thought. Turukulon watched as the warrior launched an all out attack against what he believed to be the Dragon's weakest points. Suddenly, the warrior doubled over in pain as he was hit by spells of stunning force. Turukulon merely spoke a few words and his opponent fell to the ground gasping for breath and writhing in pain. "You had no chance, " he whispered and a ball of fire enveloped his opponent's body. Turukulon turned slowly away and left the scene. The body of his enemy lay wracked and broken on the ground behind him. Encounter for Cykur (DS) at 2802 - The result of FLEEing.He turned to flee and the exit loomed nearer and nearer when, suddenly, a massive claw blocked the exit and a hiss boomed out into the cave. "Not so fast, puny one, you can't possibly leave until I've had my dinner..." Turukulon looked sneeringly down at the warrior before him. It would be fun to slaughter this puny warrior, he thought. Turukulon watched as the warrior launched an all out attack against what he believed to be the Dragon's weakest points. Suddenly, the warrior doubled over in pain as he was hit by spells of stunning force. Turukulon merely spoke a few words and his opponent fell to the ground gasping for breath and writhing in pain. "You had no chance, " he whispered and a ball of fire enveloped his opponent's body. Turukulon turned slowly away and left the scene. It was only some hours later that the warrior regained consciousness and, although gravely wounded, he was able to flee the scene.
Update from Greg Shaffer: Uruial did somewhere in the range of 25,000 (for 76% losses) to 37,000 (for 99% losses) combat damage to my enemies. I suspect this makes him weaker than some of the other dragons. |